Diana Walsh Pasulka on the Interconnected Nature of Belief, Technology, Religion, and Objective Reality

This episode features Diana Walsh Pasulka, a scholar of religious belief, delving into the complex relationship between human belief and objective reality. She introduces Immanuel Kant's distinction between the noumenal (the 'thing in itself' which is unknowable) and the phenomenal (how we perceive reality), arguing that humans can only ever approximate objective reality. Pasulka emphasizes that beliefs, even if factually erroneous, possess immense power to create social effects and suffering, citing historical examples like the belief in 'limbo' or the idea that women had no souls, which had profound real-world consequences for individuals and societies.

The conversation explores how technology acts as an 'extension of our senses' (Marshall McLuhan), enabling humans to get 'more directly' at understanding reality, thereby refining our beliefs. It touches upon philosophical concepts such as external world skepticism, epistemology (what can we know), and metaphysics (the nature of reality). Pasulka also discusses the academic reception of philosophers like Ayn Rand and Friedrich Nietzsche, highlighting the nuanced view that even controversial thinkers can offer valuable insights despite perceived flaws or contradictions. She advocates for contextualizing thinkers within their historical periods while still engaging with their ideas.

Pasulka outlines a 'building block' theory of religion, proposed by Ann Taves, suggesting that there are no inherently religious or mythic experiences, only experiences that are subsequently interpreted as such. This framework helps explain how intense personal experiences, when shared and believed by credible individuals, can give rise to collective movements and new mythologies, such as the contemporary UFO narrative. The discussion also draws parallels to figures like Jimi Hendrix, whose 'electric church' philosophy demonstrates how artistic expression can serve as a spiritual mission, impacting people on a profound, non-physical level.

Ultimately, the episode posits that the nature and power of belief, whether in technology or extraterrestrial intelligence, might hold the key to understanding human consciousness and its potential for engineering in machines. It suggests that technological innovation itself is a manifestation of collective mythology, driven by the belief of individuals who turn the seemingly impossible into reality. The dialogue encourages a deeper consideration of how our collective intelligence shapes our understanding of the world, creating realities that, while not strictly physical, are undeniably impactful.

"belief is generally there are different definitions of belief just just as there are different definitions of what is real okay so for belief in my field it would be attitudes toward something that dictate our actions"

"I don't think we can actually obtain a correct understanding of what is real and in that sense i have to refer to a philosopher again and that would be emmanuel kant"

"he had this idea that we can actually never get to the thing in itself okay so he called that the numenol the thing in itself"

"truth is a moving target"

"our beliefs are tremendously they uh they create social effects absolutely"

"limbo's nothing yet the belief in it caused untold suffering and that's just a small example and that was as real to them it was absolutely real"

"marshall mcluhan was the person who said technology is like an extension of our senses and i absolutely believe that to be true"

"there are no religious experiences or mythic experiences there are experiences and then they get interpreted as religious or mythic"

"he thought he was it was like a mission for him like like he was a missionary and he was like doing the electric church it was through his mission of music that he was actually impacting people spiritually"

"the nature of alien life intelligence and how they might communicate with us humans is likely stranger than we imagine and perhaps stranger than we can imagine"